Windows 8, consumer preview Options

[Tiuri]

Well, I've just installed this and I have trouble finding my way around.



It looks very, very tablet-y and not at all intuitive on a PC. Having to google how to close programs (apps) is not a good sign.



Anyone else trying this out???

[ladsnet]

Nope.

Read a few previews which all seemed to conclude that unless you're on a tablet.. steer well clear.

I like Windows7
I'm sticking with that for now

[Tiuri]

Just played with it some more.

It's probably not fair to judge this on a preview but, for instance, there are 3 possible types of email accounts in the mail app: hotmail, exchange and gmail. You can't add your own POP server.
The music app cannot play music stored on a DNLA server, plus it's linked to Zune. Personally I don't know anyone who buys their music via zune.
I tried to install my printer. Its drivers were readily available in Windows 7 but not in Windows 8. Admittedly, it's not the latest model, but if you have the drivers for Windows 7, why not include them in 8???

As I said, it's difficult to judge because you don't know which options will be available in the final version. However, if the music app forces you to switch back to the old-fashioned (but severely limited) desktop just to add music, I don't rate its chances very highly.

I cannot imagine that any type of business environment will want to switch to this. Forget tablet-y, it just looks too childish.

For someone like me, who likes to be in control of various detail, it's a disaster. Not to mention the fact that geolocation plays an important role. Bing defaults to German because I happen to live there. Yes, some elements can be switched to English but on its startpage, the adds/overlays were still all in German.

Oh yeah, the news app. Its default setting (US, duh), managed to show news about the opening of the Olympics. When I changed it to UK (using msn. uk??? as its source), the latest news was that the countdown to the start of the Olympics had started. I tried this 10 minutes ago or so. You could only select one country for your source of news, so MS had better make sure that its national news sources are up to date (which in this case they clearly were not).

[ladsnet]

http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/28/windows...e-for-blizzard/

[ic1male]

You can now download a 90-day xxxxuation version of Windows 8 Enterprise to tide you over until the release day on October 26.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-US/xxxxcenter/jj554510.aspx

I'm not sure whether to upgrade or not. I was going to do it via Technet but MS only give you two product keys now instead of ten. Bastards.

EDIT: Oh for goodness sake. Change the xxxx in the URL to e v a l without the spaces.

This post has been edited by ic1male: Aug 19 2012, 22:43

[Tiuri]

Hah, even on the RTM version the metro email app doesn't even support pop3 accounts. It requires imap.

The music app still cannot add songs on a NAS to its library.

[acfan4eva]

I'm sure this will cause controversy but I'm going to say it anyway, it seems to me that with windows 8 MS are trying to emulate a lot of the things Apples OSX and iOS have been doing for a few years now and quite frankly they're doing a poor job of it

[ic1male]

I'm sure this will cause controversy but I'm going to say it anyway, it seems to me that with windows 8 MS are trying to emulate a lot of the things Apples OSX and iOS have been doing for a few years now and quite frankly they're doing a poor job of it

Really? I think a lot of people are now saying they've jumped past Apple because they now have one single unified OS which runs on phones, tablets, PCs, consoles with the same interface. The live tiles which provide updates without opening the app is also better than anything on iOS.

[Dominus]

I've been examining the tech forums and some suggestions have been made that if all you ever do on your PC is play games and dick around on Farcebook, than Win8 is perfect for you. If you actually use your PC for work - don't touch it.

Some of the ergonomic implications for touchscreen PCs have yet to be thought out - for example, a local Code of Practice for office equipment suggests monitors be at least arms length away to avoid development of gradual process injuries from poor posture at a work station.

[Parsifal]

http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/28/windows...e-for-blizzard/

I guess this is an updated review from engadget as of 2012/10/30
Windows 8 review

It's quite long and looks comprehensive. I haven't had time to read it yet myself.

But what I'm reading about Windows 8 so far has me worried. Not so much for the steep learning curve, but once I've learned it will I be able to use it for my main purpose (i.e. business)?

I'm not on Facebook.
I don't play games on my computer.
I don't play music on my computer.
I don't watch movies or TV on my computer.

Other than chatting (and arguing ) with you fine folks and some online dating by and large I use my computer for BUSINESS. That consists mainly of:

e-mail (AOL)
specialized licensed heavy-duty number crunching software
Microsoft Office
Adobe Reader
Internet Explorer
Anti-virus software (Norton)
Win-Zip
and a few minor purpose programs (e.g. an address book program that I like)

I have to be able to install my own licensed software.

I will not be interested in seeing a lot of irrelevant app icons on the screen that I will never use.

I'm getting the impression that Windows 8 will NOT be suitable for business use. Is that correct?
When I have time I'll read the (long) review that I posted above, but meanwhile I'm getting worried that the next computer that I buy will have Windows 8 and it will be pretty useless to me.

I'm currently running Windows 7 and the first thing I did when I got this computer was get rid of that band of icons streaming across the bottom of the screen (it was annoying!)

[Dominus]

Thanks for posting that review Parsi - I've saved a copy for future reference (and to read later). Because the ergonomics are something a work group I'm a member of have to consider, I did some more study of this at work and made some notes for future reference.

The interface on a classic desktop requires greatly exaggerated mouse movements to get certain services - sweeping into the corners of the screen is a case in point. Repeat that too often and I reckon those who are borderline for gradual process injury are going to have serious issues. A lot of my colleagues use multiple monitors, and the mouse movements into the corners will become really interesting.

My own usage of PCs would appear to match yours Parsi, but I don't personally use the specialised number crunching software you do - but there are colleagues at work who do as part of processing experimental data, so the implications for data entry will need to be examined as well... As for my home PC;
Opera browser
Office 2010 Pro
WordPerfect Suite
PaintShop Pro
Adobe Acrobat (editing PDFs)
Security software
E-Libraries - a variety of systems

According to an upgrade assistant from MS, I'd loose all software and would have to reinstall it all if I upgrade from my current XP Pro to Win8. I get referred to the app store because it claims updates are available there - in other words, it looks like they want to scam me for more money.

That stupid apps icon screen seems to annoy the f*ck out of people - apparently it's the replacement for the Start button (and menu). The fanboys drooling over it go on about how it can be modified to show stuff like sports results, weather etc so you don't need to visit the relevant websites. All I can say is what a bunch of lazy f*ckturds they are...
If I want information from online, I use my browser - but then I'm not a lazy prick like these folk...

Something I noted on the MS website was that:

In some cases, an app might be removed from the Windows Store for violating the Terms of Use. When this happens, you'll receive an email notifying you that the app will no longer be available in the Store and the app will no longer work on your PCs.

In other words, MS reserves the right to remove stuff you buy off the app store from your PC - I despise this behaviour. I have run my own PCs for over 12 years - and it's been nearly 13 years since I last had a virus infect a PC under my control, so I don't take kindly to MS and it's overbearing attitude. I determine what gets loaded on my PC, and I determine what is removed - not some arsehole from Redmond.
I logged in to their system and told them I did not like this (minus the arsehole bit)

I'm worried too Parsi - I see a loss in productivity if I have to waste time and energy relearning how to use a PC, not to mention the aggravation of the loss of the control over MY property. I reckon I'll need to make plans for extending the life of my current system. Updating before has not been an issue before as I bought update boxes (just the tower of the PC, with no OS installed) loaded the OS from my discs and downloaded all the service packs again, but after 2014 when support for XP stops, I won't have that option.

Maybe I'll just dump the Redmond cretins and go all out for Linux...

Maybe MS will return to their senses and come out with an OS that works for PCs - but then, maybe Hell will freeze over first...

As an aside, they are really pushing their SkyDrive - but after what happened with Megaupload, I won't ever use cloud services... I have multi-Terabyte drives for a reason afterall...

[Tiuri]

As an aside, they are really pushing their SkyDrive - but after what happened with Megaupload, I won't ever use cloud services... I have multi-Terabyte drives for a reason afterall...

Not to mention they monitor what you put on 'your' Skydrive. There's an article about its content restrictions here

I've not even started Win8 in weeks because it pissed me off so much. To be fair, I do think most business software will run on it. Presumably with a lot of switching between the old and new interface...

[Dominus]

As an aside, they are really pushing their SkyDrive - but after what happened with Megaupload, I won't ever use cloud services... I have multi-Terabyte drives for a reason afterall...

Not to mention they monitor what you put on 'your' Skydrive. There's an article about its content restrictions here

I've not even started Win8 in weeks because it pissed me off so much. To be fair, I do think most business software will run on it. Presumably with a lot of switching between the old and new interface...

Thanks for the link Tiuri, it made for interesting reading - especially the comments.

I've got a question for you Tiuri, it relates to Win8 and scrolling up and down documents. If I'm needing to move around in a document (Word, PDF, webpage etc) and it's a big one, I'm inclined to use the mouse to 'grab' the scroll bar. If I'm wanting to go right to the end of the document, it means I may strike the bottom right corner of the screen and then move up out of the area again. If my reading of MS's website is right, I'm going to be continually triggering the 'Charms' menu - am I right?

The software may run on it - but only after you reinstall it... I'm on XP pro and face having to reinstall something like 100 + items and then going through them all to get my settings redone from scratch. I am not a happy camper... Given the level of effort required and the time available to do it, it will take me weeks to finish it all. I'm staying on XP and will not update until MS gets it's head out of its arse - which may mean never... (in which case, I go to Linux)

Incidentally, I found out that Office 2013 is likely to have a default setting that synchs your work with an online store (hosted by MS I presume). Given some need to consider commercial sensitivity with their work, this may be a nasty problem...

[Dark_ph0enix]

Enterprise aren't going to transition to Windows 8 any time soon, as it's in no way suited to large scale deployment. It's a good mobile OS but it's truly awful for anyone who wants to use PC for anything even beginning to approach productivity.

Hell even something like the new Chromebook allows you to be more productive - to an extent - than a powerful PC that's been crippled with Windows 8.

[Dominus]

Unfortunately the tech sites I've been examining are littered with fan-boys drooling over the new system and questioning the technical competence of any who suggest it's a lemon.

Of course said fan-boys get so many details wrong it isn't funny... They also seem to believe that everyone should be using keyboard short-cuts to divert around matters identified by critics as being issues - without dealing with the problem at hand.

Multi-screen users would also appear to have issues - making comments that suggest they suspect strain injuries will develop if they try to use the touch-screens MS seems to think they need to do their work. Some of my colleagues have two monitors, with a combined width of about a metre, so I reckon I understand what is meant.

[Parsifal]

I think I'll have to wait and see. Let big business take the lead on this. If the likes of American Express Company, Chase Manhattan Bank, etc. adopt Windows 8 then I guess I'll know that it's good for me too.

[Dominus]

There's enough evidence to warrant my examination of the matter at work - particularly in relation to the ergonomics of using what MS thinks should be used for Win 8, namely touchscreen monitors. It's a known issue that a vertical touchscreen monitor requires the user to hold their arms in an unsupported horizontal position, which over a period of time will cause muscular pain. It's apparently the side effect that destroyed the touchscreen as a mainstream input interface in the 1980s and gave rise to a term 'Gorilla arm' in programmer circles.
If users place the monitor in a position to avoid having to hold their arms up unsupported, and also avoiding incorrect flexion of the wrists* the monitor will end up in a position that will not be conducive for reading it, especially if lights are in particular positions relative to the workstation - glare will be a major issue.

*for demonstration, PC users reading this should reach their arm out to the monitor as though they were going to touch it like a touch screen, the hand adopts a position like you were going to push open a door - long term this is bad posture and will cause pain.


I also discovered some material on ergonomics sites that suggest that iPad users moderate their usage to avoid injury. Usage causes users to hold their units in a manner that places abnormal torsion on the wrists giving rise to pain in the forearms leading to repetitive strain injuries. Even Apple's own publicity shots showed wrists in orientations known to cause problems long term.
Typing on the tablets while they are laid flat on a surface is a particularly bad thing to do as it is reported to force the neck into more extreme static neck flexion or extension depending on the users posture.

As I said, I've got grounds to examine the matter at work, and I'm compiling information to develop a report that I intend to present to our national H&S committee. As things develop, I'll pass on information to the forum on the subject as I suspect it will be of interest to the heavy IT users.

Fundamentally, if I have anything to do with it, the big business I work for will wait for hell to freeze over before adopting Win 8. Something oriented at touchscreens is not usable in an office productivity environment due to the ergonomic issues surrounding the touchscreen.

Incidentally, I am what is termed in NZ law a H&S Representative - I deal with H&S issues daily in addition to my lab management role. I have a reputation for NOT being the stereotype H&S Nazi (no, I'm not causing invocation of Godwin's Law there) - in fact I have a reputation for being scientific and evidence based, so much so that senior management trust my opinion on these matters.

[Parsifal]

*for demonstration, PC users reading this should reach their arm out to the monitor as though they were going to touch it like a touch screen, the hand adopts a position like you were going to push open a door - long term this is bad posture and will cause pain.

I did that test and can see how after a full day's work (hell, after 20 minutes!) that can be very fatiguing for the arm being used.

As things develop, I'll pass on information to the forum on the subject as I suspect it will be of interest to the heavy IT users.

Yes, please do.

Incidentally, I am what is termed in NZ law a H&S Representative

H&S = health and safety?

[Dominus]

*for demonstration, PC users reading this should reach their arm out to the monitor as though they were going to touch it like a touch screen, the hand adopts a position like you were going to push open a door - long term this is bad posture and will cause pain.

I did that test and can see how after a full day's work (hell, after 20 minutes!) that can be very fatiguing for the arm being used.

I personally have difficulty with longer range driving - my left arm in particular - and end up with numb fingers

As things develop, I'll pass on information to the forum on the subject as I suspect it will be of interest to the heavy IT users.

Yes, please do.

Sure thing...

Incidentally, I am what is termed in NZ law a H&S Representative

H&S = health and safety?

Yes - it's part of my job to act as a representative for the rest of the people on the site I'm based at. Our H&S legislation gives me some powers to investigate accidents, incidents and any other matter that may impact upon the well-being of my colleagues. I can issue hazard notices, and under the act, if I identify a problem and make a recommendation, the employer must either adopt it, or provide a written explanation of why they won't - conscious of the fact that if I don't like it, I'm able to call in the regulators.

[Parsifal]

MS is advertising Windows 8 in the New York subways, so they're really pushing it.

Plus today I got the Dell Business catalogue in the mail (for small businesses). Some of the computers in the catalogue come with Windows 8 and some with Windows 7. So it looks like Dell ("Dell recommends Windows") sees Windows 8 as suitable for small businesses.

I would like to see a demonstration or a tutorial of the operating system.