UK National Debt Options

[sanitynotincluded]

Reducing imports/ increasing exports might improve the balance of payments, but it will not significantly improve the national debt. If you want to improve the national debt, the answer is quite simple. The government needs to stop spending money that it doesn't have. That is the case however desireable you might consider what they wish to spend the money on, be that high speed white elephants to Birmingham, or electrifying sheffield (electrocuting might be better )

[Humpty Dumpty]

Reducing imports/ increasing exports might improve the balance of payments, but it will not significantly improve the national debt. If you want to improve the national debt, the answer is quite simple. The government needs to stop spending money that it doesn't have. That is the case however desireable you might consider what they wish to spend the money on, be that high speed white elephants to Birmingham, or electrifying sheffield (electrocuting might be better )

How interesting - which means that increasing exports which are mostly done by the private sector, increasing government revenue from corporate taxation, income tax and national insurance both employee and employer will do little to reduce the national debt....................... That's even ignoring removing unemployed to employed. I often wonder how you square your beliefs with being employed in the public sector..................

[Parsifal]

I often wonder how you square your beliefs with being employed in the public sector..................

Oh, right-wingers are famously hipocritical. Certainly in the US that's the case. Apologies if it's different in the UK.

[sanitynotincluded]

How interesting - which means that increasing exports which are mostly done by the private sector, increasing government revenue from corporate taxation, income tax and national insurance both employee and employer will do little to reduce the national debt....................... That's even ignoring removing unemployed to employed. I often wonder how you square your beliefs with being employed in the public sector..................

By the time imported goods get to the consumer, the government has had multiple bites of the taxation cherry. The proportional difference is fairly small, and slow to be noticed.

As for your latter comment, if my resignation were guarenteed to result in the abolition of the NHS, I would deliver it first thing Monday morning. As it won't, why shouldn't I work for them. There is no hypocracy in believing that something is a mistake, while acknowledging the reality that that mistake goes on and living accordingly. Only someone of profoundly limited comprehension, extreme arrogant dishonesty, or both, would try to suggest otherwise.

[Parsifal]

It's a mystery to me how shrinking the economy and reducing government revenue while cutting spending helps to reduce the deficit and the national debt in any significant way. So far that strategy has failed in every country that has adopted it since the advent of the economic crisis (save Estonia I suppose).

[markabba]

We should pay off our debt and live wthin our means.It's simple as that.Tough cuts and harsh measures now are very unpleasant for us at present but we should be thinking about future generations.
We are all to blame,not just governments.We all want our huge plasma screen tv's and new 3 piece suites NOW! What happened to saving up for things?

This government set out on the right track in my view but have shot themselves in the foot with very stupid decisions and u turns (pasties,caravan tax,charity tax etc).For the first few months they seemed focussed and had broad support.People did'nt like it but knew it was neccesary but now silly squabbles in the coalition are knocking them off course.

Labour,would definitely make things worse,borrow even more and just leave future generations to pay.Someone has to have the balls to see this tough time through,pay off our debt and put us all on a level playing field.It won't be easy but until we have a government that can do that,we are all in the shit for generations.

By the way,i'm a disillusioned Tory ,i despair at the Liberals,who will no doubt be as awkward and uncompromising with Labour if they have to do another coalition and i will never trust Labour with our finances.Heart in right place,head in the sand.So where does my vote go? I really don't know at the moment.I just wish Dave would get a grip!

[Parsifal]

We should pay off our debt and live wthin our means.

Excellent idea!
You'll need to raise more revenue to pay off the debt. Cutting spending by itself won't do it.

However, debt is a necessary element of government fiscal policy. Governments usually don't have the money in the bank for large infrastructure projects e.g. highways, bridges, etc. that are needed now. So bonds have to be issued which will be paid off over time. However, that should be viewed as a form of temporary debt and not just an addition to accumulating debt.

[markabba]

We should pay off our debt and live wthin our means.

Excellent idea!
You'll need to raise more revenue to pay off the debt. Cutting spending by itself won't do it.

However, debt is a necessary element of government fiscal policy. Governments usually don't have the money in the bank for large infrastructure projects e.g. highways, bridges, etc. that are needed now. So bonds have to be issued which will be paid off over time. However, that should be viewed as a form of temporary debt and not just an addition to accumulating debt.

Time for a change then.If it's been done that way for years it does'nt make it right.Governments should only borrow if they are sure they can easily pay it back.
Living within your means may seem a naive,simple idea but it seems logical to me

[Roger Mellie]

Another way is export more than we import. Sadly would-be business people find it hard to get loans to set up businesses, or employ extra people (not to mention endless red tape). Also trading with the Commonwealth more would help: Same language, legal system, similar accounting system-- and many Cw countries are booming too.

Leaving the EU would be an enormous step to solve the two issues above

[Regarding freight] And Britain's roads would be gridlocked without the relief from railroads. That's one of the arguments for upgrading the passenger rail system in the US. The air routes for medium range distances are clogged as are many airports. Not to mention environmental efficiency.

Travelled on our roads recently? The vast majority of freight in this country is moved by roads. Eddie Stobart alone makes a delivery every 20 seconds. Stand over a motorway bridge during the day, you'll see just how much freight is shifted by road; if you did the same over a railway (we don't have railroads in the UK) bridge, you'd be there a long time waiting for a freight-train. In case you'd not noticed, few of our shops and industrial estates are situated right by a railway station.

Also a lot freight comes in by sea (we're a small set of islands don't forget!) and increasing amount by air, confer East Midlands Airport.

>> No. The truth is independent of what anyone says or thinks. But I'm telling you. <<

In this case (your response to what Stu was saying earlier), it's your opinion. Proof, if anywere need, that you are a sententious know-it-all, who is conceited enough to pretentiously believe his opinion is fact; anybody who disagrees with you, is arrogantly dismissed as "ignorant". It says more about you, than those you seek to belittle. If we're ignorant, what does that make you?

I've always hated this argument. Aren't roadways/motorways also subsidized?

Kev: In the UK we have road tax, plus heavily taxed fuel (~80% of pump price is tax)-- so we 'customers' of the road more than pay for them.

This post has been edited by Roger Mellie: May 14 2013, 20:09

[Parsifal]

We should pay off our debt and live wthin our means.

Excellent idea!
You'll need to raise more revenue to pay off the debt. Cutting spending by itself won't do it.

However, debt is a necessary element of government fiscal policy. Governments usually don't have the money in the bank for large infrastructure projects e.g. highways, bridges, etc. that are needed now. So bonds have to be issued which will be paid off over time. However, that should be viewed as a form of temporary debt and not just an addition to accumulating debt.

Time for a change then.If it's been done that way for years it does'nt make it right.Governments should only borrow if they are sure they can easily pay it back.
Living within your means may seem a naive,simple idea but it seems logical to me

I believe we're in agreement.

Another way is export more than we import.

Yes. The Germans are very good at that. German banks even lend money to other EU/Euro countries (Greece, Spain, Italy, ...) so they can import German goods. (which has them in a bit of a straight at the moment with the euro crisis and all)

[sanitynotincluded]

We should pay off our debt and live wthin our means.

Excellent idea!
You'll need to raise more revenue to pay off the debt. Cutting spending by itself won't do it.

However, debt is a necessary element of government fiscal policy. Governments usually don't have the money in the bank for large infrastructure projects e.g. highways, bridges, etc. that are needed now. So bonds have to be issued which will be paid off over time. However, that should be viewed as a form of temporary debt and not just an addition to accumulating debt.

Time for a change then.If it's been done that way for years it does'nt make it right.Governments should only borrow if they are sure they can easily pay it back.
Living within your means may seem a naive,simple idea but it seems logical to me

Politicians unfortunately realise that it is politically successful to keep spending money we don't have buying the votes of the 51% who are too stupid to realise that in the end it catches up with you.

Unless you keep the growth in spending below the growth in revenues it will eventually catch up with you. While taxation remains so anti entrepreneurial, the only way to do that is to start cutting. Of course. Cameron is too much of a coward to cut anything, and the rest of the parties don't want to.

The left are primarily concerned with class warfare, as demonstrated by Obama during the 2008 campaign who stated that he would favour increasing capital gains taxes, even if it were shown that revenues would fall as a result, in the name of "fairness".

Another way is export more than we import. Sadly would-be business people find it hard to get loans to set up businesses, or employ extra people (not to mention endless red tape).

#a lot of that is because the previous government increased capitalisation requirements and dictated that more of it had to be government debt (enabling more state borrowing), and the present ot have done nothing to undo it. If on the one hand you tell the banks that they can't lend as much per pound in the metaphorical vault, and that more of what they can lend must be lnet to the government, it is a bit much to then complain that they are not lending enough to businesses. Politicians being shameless, they don't understand that.

This post has been edited by sanitynotincluded: Aug 29 2012, 18:12